Whenever we experience failure, it is pretty easy to stay down and give up. However, Phebe Trotman begs to disagree: when having a bad day, the only solution is to get back up and continue moving forward. Joining Sean Olson, she shares valuable leadership lessons from her soccer career and explains how she applies them today in the entrepreneurship arena. Phebe offers practical advice on maximizing team performance, keeping a strong collaborative spirit, and continuously elevating the skills of every single member. She also talks about her book series, Never Quit On A Bad Day, a collection of inspiring stories of inspiration, love, and resilience.

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Never Quit on a Bad Day - Accomplished Athletes : https://mybook.to/NeverQuitAthletes

Never Quit on a Bad Day - Thriving Entrepreneurs : https://mybook.to/NeverQuitonaBadDay

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Getting Back Up After A Bad Day With Phebe Trotman

I'm glad to have you here for this new episode of the show. I'm pleased to have my guest, Phebe Trotman, all the way from the wonderful North of Canada out on the West Coast. Phoebe is an entrepreneur, author, and athlete, and she's so much. Readers, you're in for a treat as you get to read some of her stories and learn how she is still impacting people in powerful ways. Phebe, welcome to the show. It's great to have you.

Thanks so much. I'm excited. I've been looking forward to this conversation. I appreciate everything you're doing. Thank you for having me on.

Looking Back

My pleasure. Thank you. We met and had a good conversation about some of your work, your history and what you've been doing and that's why I felt you'd be a great person to have on our show. As you're aware, we start every show with our guests, walking through a little bit of their story so that our readers can understand who you are. Tell us a little bit about Phebe and some of the leadership lessons learned along the way.

It's been a journey, as it obviously is for many people. A little bit of background of me. I am an athlete. I started playing soccer when I was five years old. I’m very young. I was the only little girl on an all-boys team and the only person of color on this team. That was my introduction to the sport of soccer. I fell in love with it. I got started because my older brother played and continued through. I've had an incredible career. I'm very grateful for the teams that I've played on where I've won national championships at all levels. I won a lot of personal accolades as well, too. However, it wasn't always like that. I've had challenges in my athletic career, which we can talk about.

As I transitioned into the career world, I was working full-time at a computer company and had this plan to create all these side projects, then once the income from the side projects was high enough, I would transition out. However, it didn't work as planned. My company went bankrupt. I was laid off, and that was my intro to the business world. I've been an entrepreneur now for the last many years. I learned a lot along that journey. I'm excited for our conversation. We can dive into any of those different tracks.

Soccer

Let's sit on the soccer front for a little bit. I know from having talked to you before you are humble, and you don't like to talk about personal accolades, but obviously, you're incredibly accomplished in soccer, and it's not bragging about you because soccer is a team sport. It's the team that won the national championships and such. Talk to us a little bit about life lessons and leadership lessons learned in a team sport because whether we're in sports or business, everything is done in teams. What are the lessons you learned about a team sport?

Everything is in a team environment. One of the things that I love about the beautiful game of soccer or football, for some who call it that, is that everyone's working for a common goal. Your ultimate goal is to win the game or win the championship or whatever that may be. Everyone has a different rule. That's one of the things that, as a player, there were times when I was a starter. There were times when I was sitting on the bench. There were times when I didn't even dress for a game, which was very challenging because you're watching your team play. In all those different roles and seasons, it's still having that common goal to still win the game. You're still part of the team.

One of the lessons that is important for people to realize is everyone contributes in different ways and you're meaningful. You still matter in the game of soccer, whether you're playing 90 minutes or longer if there's overtime or whether you're getting in for 5 minutes or you're not, or if you're just a training player, how do you make the most of every opportunity that you're given bringing your A game to that opportunity wherever it is, in whatever time, being grateful in what you're given and still contributing to the overall goal of the team that's winning the game.

Grit And Resilience

I like that. No matter what the game is that game's going to be different for everybody. I know that you are big on the concept of resilience. We'll talk about your books in a little bit that comes out through those books. What was maybe that one major difficult time in your soccer career where you had to dig in and find that grit and that resilience for you in the athletic arena?

There's been a few of those. I'm going to go back to one of the earliest ones because it has been such a huge impact. It was a disappointment, but it led to many incredible things. When I was thirteen years old, I was a young soccer player. I was playing on my community team and did very well in the community environment and with some friends. We are teammates. We were like, “Why don't we try out for this other provincial team?” I was like, “Sure.” I didn't know much about it, but I went out for it and ended up not making that team. I want the listeners to picture this. You're in a group environment and the coach lists off all the players making it to the next round. He didn't say my name. I fully expected him to say my name.

I waited. I was like, “I'm sure he made a mistake,” and it wasn't. He said, “Everyone whose name I didn't call can be released.” It was a tough moment. I walked to the car. I saw my dad and when I saw my dad, I burst into tears. I cried for a few weeks. It was wrenching because I fully expected to make it and I didn't. I remember my parents finally, I think, having enough of me crying, and they sat me down, had a very tough love conversation and asked me two important questions. They asked me, 1) What do I want to do with my soccer career and terms of what next? 2) It was like, “Are you going to let one coach's decision determine your path in this sport?”

They had that conversation in a sense where it was like, “The decision is done. There's nothing we can do to change this coach's decision, but what you do next going forward will lay the foundation for your career.” They put it back on me to focus on what I could control, which was my attitude, how hard I worked, and all the things I did behind the scenes so that I'd perform when I was on the field. That shift in my whole focus because that's when I realized, “It didn't matter what team I was on, I wanted to be an impact player.” I knew that whatever I did behind the scenes in terms of off-field would contribute to my success on the field.

What you do next going forward will change how you will. It will lay the foundation for your career.

I had to do that work on my own, oftentimes with the ball in my backyard with my brother or my dad. That transferred into all areas of my life where I had this focus. It shifted where it was like whatever team I'm on when I say team, as we talked about earlier, not just necessarily in the sense of soccer, but whatever team I'm on, whether it is other soccer teams, other sports, a career or a business, I want to be an impact person and leave my mark on that.

I love that. You are blessed to have parents who cared enough to take that time and instead of coddling you, they challenged you there, but they're more like, “You've got a choice here.” They're relieving it in your hands. You're blessed to have had that opportunity with that.

I'm grateful.

National Championships

You pushed forwaNational Championshipsrd as an impact player. I know from our previous conversation you were a striker so you're out there working to score the goals and some national championships. Briefly fill in our audience where were you playing and what were those championships?

I’m extremely grateful for phenomenal coaches and exceptional teammates. I've had the privilege and honor to win under nineteen national championships. I went on to play at Simon Fraser University, and we won the NAIA championship, which then was the longest game in history. It ended up being the equivalent of almost two soccer games because back then, you played golden goal. It was tied after regulations. You go to overtime and then overtime until a goal is scored. We won that in my final year, which was amazing, then I've won on the adult premier level in terms of a national championship as well as with the Whitecaps Women's team in the W-League. We won a national championship there. I still play and I've been fortunate to win two national championships.

For our readers from the US, you're understanding like, “What are these leagues? I've never heard of them.” These are all Canadian leagues.

Some of them, yes and no. The NAIA was in the US and Canada. W-League was a Canadian and US league. Some only in Canada. Some in both. I’m super fortunate in the career that I've been able to have.

I played it in college a little bit, too, but nowhere near your level of skill. What I love about it is three teams at once. You've got the forwards who are out there who are trying to score the goals. The midfield is trying to control the game, the midfielders, but you've got to have the stout defense and the great keeper and all three have to be on point or you are not a champion.

When I think back to especially that NAIA game when it was golden gold, you're continuing to play and it takes such a huge team effort. Our back line was exceptional. Our keeper made an amazing save in the overtime period. It is such a team sport where everyone has to work together to bring their best to perform to win a championship.

Bad Day: Soccer is such a team sport where everyone has to work together to bring their best to win a championship.

Golden Goal

It’s a crazy question that has nothing to do with leadership and stuff, but the golden goal is where you play overtime after overtime until somebody scores. That's why it's the golden goal. Nowadays it's typically two overtime periods if there's nothing that goes to PKs. Are you glad you had the golden goal era or do you wish you had the PK era?

I've done both. I have won championships in both. The one thing about the golden goal is it's about grit, endurance and mental toughness. You continue to keep playing. From a physical fitness standpoint, what I love about golden goal is it takes all the training you've ever done and brings it into that moment. The whole team is involved in that experience. In a PK situation, depending on how many PKs you have to go through, it might be select players who are doing that. Everyone's still involved because you need your teammate's support and your coach's support. I love the golden goal. As tough as it was and the length of time, it is a true test of your endurance and mental toughness to be able to keep playing.

I feel the same way. The penalty kicks are great, but it's witch keeper guesses better. At that point, you're talking 90 minutes of game time plus typically 30 minutes of OT. you've got all this time in the game and then it comes down to chance to a point with PKs.

It’s a little bit of skill. Are you a PK taker? Did you ever take PKS when you were playing?

I played sweeper. I was a defender. I never took those things.

It is goalies for sure, but it's also those players having that composure and the focus to handle it under pressure.

Corporate Transition

There's a ton of skill in the strikers and ones kicking for sure in the keepers. For me, it's what you were saying, it's 150 minutes of team, and then it comes down to individuals. Let's keep it as a team. I'm with you. A lot of people have had athletic careers, but then we get older. Athletics pass to the wayside. They become recreational, not competitive and things like that. How did you translate what you learned about leadership and teams in the athletic arena into your corporate arena?

When I was working full-time at a computer company, I started it as a bunch of side projects. I was feeling uninspired. One of the things I love, and this is the athletic side, I love to be challenged and set goals. When the company went bankrupt and I was laid off, I had this crossroads moment in terms of, “What next?” I had been using this tool to help me with one of my businesses and the tool offered a compensation network marketing component structure. I chose to build that business. It's interesting because in the beginning, I did not apply a lot of the principles and things that I learned.

One example is as an entrepreneur and this was my thought in the beginning was like, “I can work when I want to work,” which is true as an entrepreneur, you can do that. However, I wasn't consistent. I would work one day and then I'd be like, “I'm going to take a couple days off.” I didn't have consistent results. This is important for people to realize. If you want consistent results, you have to put in consistent activity.

If you want consistent results, you have to put in consistent work.

When I put on that, what did I do as an athlete, consistently trained and be coachable? When I applied that to my network marketing business, then I started to have results. In terms of some of the lessons, the team part was so much fun for me because as you're building a network marketing business, you're working with other people to help them accomplish their goals and you have an overall goal for the team. We had a lot of fun listening to people and making sure everyone felt valued.

That was one thing that I realized, especially during my last year of university playing, how important it was to get everyone on the same page in terms of making sure people feel appreciated and valued regardless of what their playing time is. It was the same thing in terms of building a business, is letting people know, regardless of whether you are in this business for the social aspect or the growth aspect, the personal growth, or you want to make a part-time income or full-time, you have a place here valuing people and letting them know, “We appreciate you for where you're at and what you bring to the table.”

What's important as leaders in all areas is recognizing people and appreciating them for what they bring to the table because everyone is unique. That's what makes it beautiful in terms of sports as well as careers and businesses is what people bring their uniqueness and skillset that they bring to the table. How can you appreciate that and help them rise up in that?

Maximizing The Team

Where leaders mess up with this, I'll try to use soccer as a picture of this. Keeper’s names are typically known because if they're a good keeper, they're making all these saves, so you know the name of the keeper. That main striker, you'll know their name and you might know who that all-star midfielder or something like that. What I like about what you're saying there is that we know and appreciate what everybody brings to the table, no matter what it is and no matter how valuable it is, because this is the problem.

Leaders oftentimes think, “These two are my most valuable players because they're doing this better than anybody else.” They almost minimize everybody else. The skills that they bring are still essential to the team. I love the way you were talking about that, where, as a leader, it's our responsibility to realize everybody is bringing something to the table. How do we, as the leader, maximize that for the team, not minimize who they are if they're not as good as somebody else?

For example, I talked about how, in my career, I've had different roles, even when I wasn't necessarily the starter on the team. You still have a role to bring your best because you're now helping the players who are starting to get better. It's the same thing you shared. You might have your two valuable players or top all-stars, however, everybody else is helping them as well. It's going to help to push them forward because, in the soccer world, you're competing for that starting position.

Even if you don't get it, you've helped that player become better. If you can focus on the overall goal of whatever it is, as a group, collectively, you're looking to accomplish and realize that everybody plays a role in that success. Let them know because it can happen where players using soccer can feel not as valued, then that still is going to impact the overall attitude and collective morale of the whole team when you have players who aren't feeling that they're appreciated for what they're bringing. In the business world, that's equally important to make sure people know that they are valued because you want to keep that morale up in terms of teammates to hit your goals.

Entrepreneurial Career

Soccer then the corporate job or the company job, and now entrepreneur, tell us what Phebe's doing nowadays from the entrepreneurial side.

It's been a fun journey and the journey continues. One of the things I've always been very open and I've had out of my heart for the last 5 to 7 years. I wanted to create something to help, encourage and inspire, to take all the lessons that I've learned as an athlete, as well as an entrepreneur and share it in a way. I wasn't sure what that would look like. I was very open. I was sharing it with some dear friends, and they were the ones who suggested that I write a book.

Initially I was like, “A book? I don't know.” One of the things, and it's important, is who we surround ourselves with because what they did for me is they flipped it a little bit, and they shared, “Writing a book isn't just about me. It's for the people that it can help. It was when they said it in that way that I was like, “Good point.” I was open to it. The month before this conversation, I had incredible honor. I was inducted into the Coquitlam Sports Hall of Fame and we had an induction ceremony. In that, we were talking about what his sport had given me and shared some of the life lessons that we've talked about.

I shared that the only reason I've had these highs is because of the lows, the tough stuff, you know, sitting on the bench, not dressing or not making a team and coming back from injuries and all sorts of disappointments, pushing through them to get to the other side. That's when I realized that that's why I wanted to write a book to share the story behind the story and, most importantly, what did someone to work through that disappointment to get to the other side. Was there something that they did or didn't do and how can we share that with other people? Even if the situation isn't the same, the lesson or what someone did to work through is applicable to everybody's story and journeys.

Never Quit On A Bad Day

I appreciate that you took those life lessons and brought them forward. You're strong on resilience. It comes across in the name of the book and what you're doing, and that is Never Quit On A Bad Day. I love the title. How did you get there? Has that like been a mantra for you? Has somebody said that to you? Where'd that come from?

I heard that saying many years ago, and it always stuck with me. It stuck with me in sports, in my career and in business. It's funny because when I was open to the idea and I realized, “This is what I want to do. I want to write a book that's the story behind the story,” then that same popped into my head. I was like, “That'd be a great name for a book, a mission, and to get it out there.” I always say I do this thing with God. I call it like my open the door, close the door because I still was a little bit unsure and like everyone, I had the chatter of like, “Phebe, really, a book?”

I said, “God, open the door. If the URL NeverQuitOnABadDay.com is available, then I know you're saying, ‘Go forward.’ If it's not, I started it, but not this name or something else.” To my surprise, and I'm grateful. I came home and put it in and it was available. I purchased it right away then I had that instant of like, “Am I doing this? I'm doing this.” I got super excited about it. Never Quit On A Bad Day. My goal with it is for people because it sticks in your mind.

Whether or not you ever read the book, the fact that you've heard this saying now that you can apply it to your own life. When you're going through a tough time, how do you push through that to get to the other side? That's where the growth is we grow through our challenges. That's where confidence comes from when you push through tough stuff and get to the other side. Never Quit On A Bad Day is never quitting on a bad day, but also never quitting on your dreams and goals, never quitting on the person that you're destined to be and never quitting on the belief that you can create the life that you are designed and destined to have.

I know that the first one you wrote was a collection of athletes.

The first one was a couple of stories of thriving entrepreneurs.

The first one was thriving entrepreneurs. It's their stories of running into difficult situations, being resilient, persevering and lessons learned. We're learning from them. Give our audience a taste of this. Take one of those contributors and tell his or her story and some of the life lessons that come out of that so we get a taste of what the book will do for us.

With the way the book is set up, for the readers, it is a collection of short stories. At the end of every story, there's a section called Reflections On Resilience. That's where I write a summary, a lesson that you can pull out a story for the readers to reflect on their own journey because I truly believe we're all extremely resilient. We're still here. We've all been through some stuff. The book is designed to help you remember how resilient you are and to take some tools that you can apply to your own lesson to move forward. Funny enough, someone messaged me and shared how Chapter 7 has moved them. It's called Thankfulness During Tough Times.

It's with a couple Dave and Roxanne Obiso. They're going through a very challenging time. I won't share all of it. You can read their story. The biggest takeaway is how they were thankful in that tough time. One of the things that I love that they did, and I shared this in the reflections on resilience, is they videotaped their tough day. They were going through this tough time and recorded it because that was their line in the sand moment where they were like, “We're not going ever to be not prepared when life hits in different ways.” They still had thankfulness. They still had their hope and faith for better times ahead.

In the book, I have QR codes so you can scan it and you can see that video. At the end of every chapter, all the contributors share a video of encouragement and you can see their video of encouragement now and the growth that they've had. I encourage people to do that. That whole lesson's all about gratitude. How do you find gratitude even when you're in the challenging times? It's a powerful chapter because you see their low time, you hear their low time, and you see what they did to move through it and how they were able to grow and come out on the other side. One of the lessons in there is a big one about gratitude.

Always learn how to find gratitude during challenging times.

I like that they did that video to capture their moment of turning because there's always that choice, “Am I going to quit or am I going to push?” The fact that they made that available to your readers and then the follow-on story is fantastic. The first one is entrepreneurs. We have a lot of entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs who are reading this. I'm sure that that will touch them and they're going to be able to see themselves in some of those stories. Your second one, which you finished, if I recall, is athletes. I know it's going to sound weird, but it's like, with athletes, I can see not making the team, injuries. Are they pulling their life into it? What's the second one like?

One of the things that's beautiful about both books is the stories are very different. I put it to each person to share, like, “What is one of your never quit on a bad day moments, whatever it might be?” The books aren't designed to be like, “Thriving Entrepreneurs is only for entrepreneurs and Accomplished Athletes is only for athletes.” It's for anyone who has goals and dreams and has ever felt bumped off those or maybe you're on a high and you want to continue on that high.

Accomplished Athletes, the stories, they range. There are stories of not making a team that comes through and how people push through. There are stories that totally have nothing to do with sports. I don't want to share too much because when you read it, you get the gist of it. The biggest takeaway for everyone is that the books are short stories. You can read a chapter a day if you want to. A lot of people sit and end up powering through. There are lessons and you'll be inspired by all the stories in different ways depending on where you are at in your journey.

What’s Next

What is your vision? What's next? You could keep doing these collections of stories. I want to ask you some questions about that in a minute, but are you developing content out of this and speaking? What's your dream with this concept?

I have been doing speaking. I did an event that was phenomenal. I was continuing to do speaking, some workshops and working with some teams to help them with their Never Quit On A Bad Day and how to push through that and create a positive team culture. I'm very open. I'm excited to see where this continues to go. Now it is focusing on the books, getting the message out there and seeing how I can be of service and help other people to push through those tough times and to equip them for what might happen next, how I can inspire them, encourage and be a support to them as well. Good.

I like the concept of the book. I know there are a lot of other books that are coming out now that they are collaboratives. We have multiple authors essentially and someone who's bringing it all together. How did you find these individuals who gave the stories in your collection?

A lot of them I have great relationships with, and they've inspired me along my journey. Right away, when I first decided on the concept of the book, I started making a list, and essentially, it was going to be one book to start. As I was writing down names of people who have impacted me and who I know have incredible servant hearts and have stories to share in lessons, I realized it's more than just one book. That's where the book series came from. In the first book, every person, except for one I had a relationship with before then one of the couples I reached out to through a referral, through someone else. In terms of on the athlete side, personal relationships, teammates, mentors or friends of friends who I reached out to.

They were gracious enough to say yes to share their story because it is an incredible lineup of athletes in the Accomplished Athletes book. There's a two-time NBA champion. There's that two-time Super Bowl champion. There's a world record holder. It's an incredible lineup of athletes. The reason I wanted to do a collection of stories for the vision of it is because everybody has a different journey. One of my stories may not connect with someone else, but there's another person's story that will, and I feel like it's important for people to hear from different people because, at different points along everyone's journey, something will connect with them. I wanted to create something that everybody could benefit from.

Ideas for the next ones? Are there going to be a 3rd and 4th in particular areas?

There is. It was like, “Book series,” and I had the vision for four books. I do have a plan in place for the 3rd and 4th one. I’m looking forward to that. That'll most likely be in 2025 for the third. We'll see how the year goes. I’m excited to continue to help and encourage. That is a goal of mine and something that I believe is part of who I am is to inspire, encourage people and support them. I love what you shared in the beginning that we're all individual people. It's the choices that we make next that can allow us to help other people. I believe there's such a ripple effect when one person steps out and follows their passion and their journey. It inspires other people to do the same. That's what I want to continue to help people with.

The heartbeat of what you're doing in the book is the heartbeat of why we're doing this show. There are people that can identify with Phebe like, “I get her. I've been there. I've done that,” and it's going to drive them. Our other guests, it's going to impact other people differently. With you having that collection of stories, it's that same thing, “If it's 10 chapters, all 10, you can learn from, but 2 of them are probably going to smack you across the face like, ‘That's me. I've been there. Now I've got some inspiration knowing that I can get there too.’”

That's why I love what you do with the show. It's inspiring people. It creates that catalyst for someone to move forward and then the impact continues from there.

Episode Wrap-Up

Phebe, this is fantastic. We finish every single episode with the same question. I'm going to ask you that question. We like nice, practical, intentional tips here. What is something our readers can do intentionally to be a better leader?

To say the L in leadership is for Listening. Active listening. I encourage people to listen with empathy and compassion, understand, and then move forward from there.

Bad Day: Leaders must learn how to listen with empathy, compassion, and understanding.

It’s a great tip that we need to hear on a regular basis. Anything you want to share with our audience as you make your way out?

I want to say a huge thank you to you for having me on this show. I love what you're doing, so I appreciate you and all that you are doing. I should also mention for the readers, you can get a free chapter from, the first book available on the website. It's the full chapter. It's all about belief. It's a powerful story and one that I think every person needs to read. That's why that one's available for free. I encourage people to go to NeverQuitOnABadDay.com and get that free chapter.

Is that chapter yours?

It isn't mine. When I read through all of them, this was one that can help everybody because it talks about success language and the things that we're saying to ourselves as well as others and how it can set us up for success.

Thanks for your generosity in that and for making that available to everybody. It's been great to have you. I look forward to developing this relationship as time passes. Thanks for being a guest.